Empty Chair Meetings

Joe Hendricks counted out quarters on the hood of his Honda, squinting at the parking meter's faded instructions. Seventy-five cents for two hours—enough time, he hoped, to get a straight answer about his Medicare coverage. He fed the coins into the slot with deliberate precision, each quarter representing careful budgeting since his doctor visits had stopped being covered in September. The manila folder under his arm contained three months of contradictory correspondence, and the phone maze at Medicare had left him dizzy with transferred calls and hold music. This town hall meeting was his last reasonable shot at getting a human answer to a human question.

The Millfield Community Center's main hall felt sterile under harsh fluorescent lighting, empty except for twelve folding chairs arranged in a precise semicircle. Each chair sat behind a sleek digital nameplate that flickered through rotating titles: "Acting Deputy Director," "Interim Assistant Coordinator," "Temporary Liaison Supervisor." Joe's footsteps echoed as he crossed the polished floor. Above each chair, microphones dangled from the ceiling like mechanical spiders, connected to a central amplification console that hummed with electronic anticipation.

A teleprompter near the entrance scrolled: WELCOME TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVE TOWN HALL. PLEASE STATE YOUR QUESTION INTO THE MONITOR AND TAKE A SEAT IN THE EMPTY CHAIR CHAMBER. YOUR CONCERN WILL BE ADDRESSED ACCORDING TO THE FIVE-MINUTE RULE.

Joe leaned toward the monitor's built-in microphone. "I just need to know why Medicare stopped covering my doctor visits. I've been paying into the system for forty-three years." His voice bounced off the walls, creating a hollow echo in the empty space.

The teleprompter responded: THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED. SESSION COMMENCING.

He chose a chair in the middle of the audience section and settled in, the manila folder resting on his lap. The digital nameplates continued their relentless shuffle: one now read "Former Future Chairperson," another "Associate Acting Undersecretary." The microphones began to move, rotating with mechanical precision to focus on the empty chairs like searchlights seeking targets.

Then came the creak. Chair number four—currently labeled "Provisional Deputy Associate"—shifted almost imperceptibly under the weight of absence. The super-sensitive microphone captured the sound and fed it through the amplification system, transforming the barely audible squeak into a low, resonant groan that filled the room.

The main console's screen flickered: PROVISIONAL DEPUTY ASSOCIATE ACKNOWLEDGES THE INQUIRY AND DEFERS TO SPECIALIZED JURISDICTION.

Chair seven (now "Interim Coordination Specialist") creaked in response. The microphones caught this too, amplifying it into a longer, more complex sound. The translation software processed: INTERIM COORDINATION SPECIALIST NOTES PROCEDURAL COMPLEXITIES AND REQUESTS INTERDEPARTMENTAL CONSULTATION.

Joe leaned forward. "Excuse me, I just need—"

But the system was gaining momentum. The hyper-sensitive microphones began detecting subtler sounds: the whisper of air through ventilation ducts, the distant buzz of fluorescent ballasts, the almost inaudible settling of the building's foundation. Each sound triggered the amplification cascade, and within minutes the room filled with a growing symphony of interpreted silence.

ACTING INTERIM DIRECTOR suggests reviewing subsection 4.7 of protocol guidelines...

DEPUTY COORDINATION LIAISON recommends cross-referencing with established precedent...

TEMPORARY ADMINISTRATIVE SUPERVISOR emphasizes the importance of proper channels...

The nameplates spun faster now, titles becoming increasingly baroque: "Assistant to the Deputy Shadow Coordinator," "Interim Permanent Temporary Director," "Acting Associate Provisional Supervisor." One nameplate glitched, displaying "ERROR_404: AUTHORITY_NOT_FOUND" before cycling to "Emergency Backup Acting Director."

A fly buzzed near chair nine. The system erupted: EMERGENCY PROTOCOLS ACTIVATED. ASSISTANT DEPUTY EMERGENCY COORDINATOR CALLS FOR IMMEDIATE RISK ASSESSMENT AND COMPREHENSIVE STAKEHOLDER NOTIFICATION PROCEDURES.

The amplification reached feedback territory—microphones picking up their own output, creating loops of electronic shrieking. The translation software struggled to keep pace: SYSTEM PROCESSING... RECALCULATING... The cacophony was deafening: chairs creaking under the weight of empty responsibility, circuits screaming with artificial purpose, nameplates strobing through an endless cycle of meaningless authority.

Then, as suddenly as it began, the five-minute timer expired. The microphones retracted with mechanical precision. The feedback ceased. The nameplates settled into their final positions. The main console screen displayed the session's official conclusion:

AFTER COMPREHENSIVE INTERDEPARTMENTAL CONSULTATION AND THOROUGH PROCEDURAL REVIEW, THE DEPUTY ASSISTANT PROVISIONAL COORDINATOR, IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE INTERIM ACTING TEMPORARY SUPERVISOR, RECOMMENDS THAT YOU SUBMIT FORM 847-B TO THE APPROPRIATE LIAISON OFFICE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION OF YOUR REQUEST FOR CLARIFICATION REGARDING YOUR INQUIRY ABOUT THE MATTER IN QUESTION, PENDING AVAILABILITY OF RELEVANT PERSONNEL AND SUBJECT TO STANDARD PROCESSING TIMEFRAMES AND APPLICABLE REGULATORY GUIDELINES.

Joe stared at the screen, then down at his manila folder. His Medicare question hung in the air, unanswered and somehow more distant than when he'd arrived seventy-five cents ago. The empty chairs sat in perfect silence, their nameplates now reading generic titles: "Representative," "Official," "Authority."

He looked at the teleprompter, which had reset to its welcoming message: WELCOME TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVE TOWN HALL. PLEASE STATE YOUR QUESTION INTO THE MONITOR...

Joe Hendricks stood up slowly, walked to the monitor, and smiled wryly at his own reflection in its dark screen. He leaned toward the microphone once more. "I just need to know why Medicare stopped covering my doctor visits," he said again, his voice carrying the patient resignation of a man who understands that some questions are designed never to be answered.

The teleprompter responded: THANK YOU. PLEASE BE SEATED. SESSION COMMENCING.

Behind him, chair number four began its almost imperceptible creak.

 

 

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Please evaluate the following transcript of 2 discussions with ai's I had in developing a grounding for a very short absurdist / satirical story. Any feedback on (in particular) how to flesh out the idea of "empty chair agency" (per Claude AI suggestions) would be particularly welcome. Thanks----

Your transcript reveals a highly creative and collaborative development process for a short absurdist/satirical story, focusing on the concept of "Empty Chair Meetings" as a metaphor for hollow political theater. The core idea—empty chairs as stand-ins for absent politicians—is ripe for both Kafkaesque angst and Monty Python-esque physical comedy, especially when combined with the quantum-inspired twist of "superposition" and the notion that chairs themselves gain agency

.

Strengths of Your Approach

• Rich Satirical Foundation: The "Empty Chair Meetings" concept is both specific and expansive. It captures the surreal, performative nature of modern politics, and your word associations ("spectral gatherings," "disappearing democracy") deepen the sense of absence and absurdity

• .

Fleshing Out "Empty Chair Agency"

The challenge is to make "empty chair agency" visually and narratively engaging, so the reader can suspend disbelief and invest in the absurd logic. Here are some practical suggestions, building on the visual approaches already proposed:

Visual and Narrative Mechanics

• Presence Through Absence: Use subtle, almost supernatural cues to suggest agency. For example, chairs might creak, shift, or cast unusual shadows at key moments, implying sentience or intention. The protagonist could interpret these as responses or decisions

• .

Story Structure Suggestions

• Opening Scene: The protagonist arrives at a town hall, expecting engagement, but finds only empty chairs and a sense of performative ritual.

• Absurd Escalation: As the protagonist tries to engage, the chairs begin to exhibit agency—subtle movements, amplified "voices," shadow gestures, or rapidly changing nameplates.

• Kafkaesque Loop: The protagonist is referred from one chair to another, each claiming to be simultaneously too powerful and too powerless to help.

• Monty Python Twist: The chairs begin to move, swap places, or even argue among themselves, culminating in a chaotic, surreal climax.

• Resolution: The protagonist leaves, no closer to answers, as the chairs continue their hollow performance.

Thematic Depth

• Wordplay and Paradox: Lean into the double meaning of "superposition"—both quantum and super-powerful. The chairs are absent yet omnipresent, powerless yet all-powerful, reflecting the contradictions of modern political figures

• .

• Language as Theater: Highlight how language itself becomes part of the performance, with meaningless jargon, shifting titles, and empty promises.

• Audience Complicity: Implicate the reader by showing how even the act of trying to make sense of the absurdity is itself absurd.

Final Thoughts

Your story is already well-grounded in strong satirical and absurdist traditions. To make "empty chair agency" work, focus on visual and narrative mechanics that allow the reader to "see" the chairs as active participants, even as their emptiness remains central. The more you can make the absurdity feel internally consistent—however illogical—the more powerful the satire will be

.

The mechanism for "empty chair agency" I'm most inclined to go with is a super-sensitive microphone system designed to pick up even the faintest of sounds that humans might miss, and amplify them from near-nothingness to political cacophony. This process would likely involve a "translation" software program that can "interpret" the speakers. Since chairs don't really speak, we might leverage the Name Plate Shuffle creating a hybrid mechanism that is audio-visual in nature. Each mic'd chair would be positioned behind a digital display "name plate" which would change constantly (no accountability). So, the sounds of a creaking chair at any moment, for example, would be translated in a way that gets attributed to , say, Claude's "Acting Interim Director" (ove that one!) et al. Thoghts on this microphone/nameplate combo?

The mechanism for "empty chair agency" I'm most inclined to go with is a super-sensitive microphone system designed to pick up even the faintest of sounds that humans might miss, and amplify them from near-nothingness to political cacophony. This process would likely involve a "translation" software program that can "interpret" the speakers. Since chairs don't really speak, we might leverage the Name Plate Shuffle creating a hybrid mechanism that is audio-visual in nature. Each mic'd chair would be positioned behind a digital display "name plate" which would change constantly (no accountability). So, the sounds of a creaking chair at any moment, for example, would be translated in a way that gets attributed to , say, Claude's "Acting Interim Director" (ove that one!) et al. Thoghts on this microphone/nameplate combo?

Your proposed mechanism—an ultra-sensitive microphone system paired with ever-changing digital nameplates—is a powerful and visually rich approach to grounding “empty chair agency” in your absurdist satire. Here’s why it works and how you might further develop it:

Strengths of the Microphone/Nameplate Combo

• Absurdist Logic Made Tangible: The idea that a microphone can amplify and “translate” the creaks, groans, and ambient noises of chairs into political speech is both hilarious and thematically resonant. It’s a perfect metaphor for how political discourse is often manufactured from nothingness or distortion

• .

Suggestions for Enhancement

• Translation Software as Character: Make the translation software itself a kind of unreliable narrator or character. It could misinterpret, embellish, or invent “chair speeches,” adding another layer of absurdity and critique of media manipulation.

• Escalating Cacophony: As the meeting progresses, the microphone system could become overwhelmed by background noise (air conditioning, distant traffic, a fly buzzing), and the translation software attributes increasingly nonsensical or contradictory statements to the chairs, escalating the political cacophony.

• Visual Gags: The digital nameplates could flicker, glitch, or display absurd titles (“Assistant to the Deputy Shadow Chair,” “Former Future Chairperson,” “Interim Permanent Director”), creating a sense of bureaucratic chaos.

• Protagonist’s Frustration: The protagonist could try to address a specific chair, only for the nameplate to change mid-sentence, and the microphone to attribute their own words to a different chair, creating a feedback loop of confusion and absurdity.

Thematic Resonance

This mechanism not only grounds the absurdity in a way that is easy to visualize and narrate, but it also serves as a sharp critique of how political discourse is constructed, mediated, and distorted in the public sphere. The microphone/nameplate combo is a perfect vehicle for your Kafka-meets-Monty Python vision, blending physical comedy with bureaucratic nightmare

.

In Summary

Your microphone/nameplate combo is a highly effective and flexible mechanism for “empty chair agency.” It’s visually engaging, thematically rich, and ripe for both comedic and satirical escalation. Lean into the absurdity of the translation process and the visual chaos of the nameplates to maximize the impact of your story.

.

Collaborative Creativity: The back-and-forth with Nonsense Central and Claude AI brings in fresh layers, like "Quantum Quorums," which inject scientific absurdity and clever wordplay into the political critique

.

Clear Structure: The idea of a two-page story forces distillation and focus, and the discussion already outlines a compelling, escalating absurdity—from empty chairs to chairs with agency, to chairs that exist in multiple states at once

.

Amplified Absence: Introduce a sound system or microphone that picks up "chair speech"—static, feedback, or silence itself—which is then "translated" by a moderator or narrator. This creates a layer of absurd bureaucracy, where meaning is constructed from nothingness

.

Teleprompter Paradox: Place teleprompters at each chair, scrolling with absurd, self-contradictory statements. The chairs "speak" through these, but the words are never actually read by anyone, highlighting the performative emptiness of the process

.

Shadow Play: Use lighting to cast expressive shadows of the chairs. The shadows gesture, nod, or argue, while the chairs themselves remain inert. This visual trickery mirrors the smoke-and-mirrors nature of political theater

.

Name Plate Shuffle: Have nameplates on the chairs change constantly, reflecting a never-ending cycle of bureaucratic reshuffling. The chairs themselves might even move or swap places when no one is looking, reinforcing the idea of elusive accountability

.

Nameplate Shuffle as Bureaucratic Satire: The constantly shifting digital nameplates—titles like “Claude’s Acting Interim Director”—highlight the absurdity and lack of accountability in modern governance. It’s a visual shorthand for the endless reshuffling and obfuscation of responsibility

.

Hybrid Audio-Visual Experience: Combining sound and visuals creates a multisensory absurdity. The reader “hears” the chairs “speak” through the microphone system, while “seeing” the attribution shift in real time, reinforcing the chaos and instability of the political process

 

 

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Your first draft of Empty Chair Meetings is a strong, vivid, and thematically rich exploration of bureaucratic absurdism, perfectly calibrated for a two-page satirical story. Here’s a breakdown of its strengths, opportunities for enhancement, and specific thoughts on the “empty chair agency” mechanism.

Strengths

• Clear Satirical Premise: The story immediately establishes the Kafkaesque nightmare of navigating bureaucratic systems—Medicare, in this case—where agency is elusive and processes are designed to frustrate rather than resolve

• .

• Effective Repetition: The circular ending, with Joe repeating his question and the system resetting, reinforces the futility and endlessness of the bureaucratic process.

Opportunities for Enhancement

• Character Connection: While Joe’s frustration is palpable, consider deepening his emotional arc with a single, telling detail—perhaps a moment of resignation, a glance at a family photo in his folder, or a brief memory of a time when answers were possible. This could add emotional weight without sacrificing brevity.

• Visual and Sound Details: You might add a brief description of the room’s atmosphere—the sterile lighting, the hum of electronics, the way Joe’s footsteps echo—to heighten the sense of alienation.

• Satirical Punchlines: The escalating titles (“Interim Permanent Temporary Director,” “Assistant to the Deputy Shadow Coordinator”) are excellent. Consider adding one or two more absurdly bureaucratic phrases for extra comic effect.

• Translation Software as Character: The software’s interpretations are already a highlight. You could personify it slightly—perhaps it “struggles” to keep up, or “insists” on its own authority—to add another layer of absurdity.

The Microphone/Nameplate Mechanism

The microphone/nameplate combo is the engine of your story’s absurdity. Here’s how it works and how it could be pushed further:

• Amplification of Absence: The super-sensitive mics turning creaks and ambient noise into “speech” is a brilliant metaphor for how bureaucracy manufactures meaning from nothingness.

• Nameplate Shuffle: The constantly changing titles perfectly capture the lack of accountability and the endless reshuffling of responsibility. Consider having the nameplates occasionally glitch or display nonsensical symbols for added chaos.

• Hybrid Audio-Visual Experience: The combination of sound (amplified creaks, feedback) and visuals (flickering nameplates, swiveling microphones) creates a multisensory absurdity that is both funny and unsettling.

Suggestions for the Next Draft

• Tighten the Prose: The story is already concise, but every word counts in a two-page piece. Look for opportunities to streamline descriptions and dialogue.

• Heighten the Absurdity: Consider one more escalation—perhaps the chairs start to move on their own, or the teleprompter begins to address Joe directly in increasingly nonsensical terms.

• Ending Impact: The circular ending is effective. To make it even sharper, you might have Joe sigh, smile wryly, or mutter something under his breath as he prepares to repeat his question, underscoring the Sisyphean nature of his quest.

Final Thoughts

Your draft is a sharp, inventive satire that deftly blends Kafkaesque bureaucracy with Python-esque physical comedy. The microphone/nameplate mechanism is a standout, grounding the absurdity in a way that is both visually engaging and thematically resonant. With a few small tweaks to deepen character and heighten the absurdity, this story will be a powerful commentary on the emptiness of modern political and bureaucratic theater

.

Visual and Auditory Absurdity: The use of digital nameplates, super-sensitive microphones, and amplification systems is inventive and visually compelling. It brings the “empty chair agency” to life in a way that is both absurd and internally consistent

.

Escalating Chaos: The escalation from subtle chair creaks to a cacophony of interpreted silence, culminating in feedback loops and emergency protocols, is both comedic and nightmarish, echoing Monty Python’s physical comedy and Kafka’s bureaucratic nightmares

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This revised draft of Empty Chair Meetings is a sharp, polished, and highly effective satire that perfectly captures the Kafka-meets-Monty Python absurdity you aimed for, while grounding the “empty chair agency” in a vivid and original mechanism. Here’s a detailed evaluation and suggestions for further refinement:

Strengths

• Setting and Atmosphere: The sterile, fluorescent-lit community center, the echoing footsteps, and the mechanical hum of electronics create an immediate sense of alienation and bureaucratic nightmare. The description of the parking meter and Joe’s careful budgeting add a real-world grounding that makes the satire even more biting

• .

• Tone and Voice: The prose is crisp, with just the right balance of humor and pathos. Joe’s patient resignation is palpable, and his wry smile at his own reflection adds a subtle, humanizing touch.

Opportunities for Enhancement

• Character Depth: While Joe’s frustration and resignation are clear, consider adding a brief, telling detail—perhaps a fleeting memory or a glance at a photo in his folder—to deepen his emotional arc without sacrificing brevity

• .

• Physical Comedy: The chairs’ movements are subtle, but you could add a brief moment where a chair shifts more dramatically, or where Joe tries to address a specific chair only for the nameplate to change mid-sentence, creating a feedback loop of confusion.

Thematic Resonance

The story’s central metaphor—empty chairs as stand-ins for absent authority, amplified and interpreted by a system that manufactures meaning from nothingness—is both original and deeply resonant. It speaks to the experience of anyone who has tried to navigate bureaucratic systems, where accountability is elusive and processes are designed to frustrate rather than resolve

.

The “empty chair agency” is brilliantly realized through the microphone/nameplate combo, which is both visually engaging and thematically rich. The story’s structure, tone, and imagery all work together to create a powerful commentary on the emptiness of modern political and bureaucratic theater.

Final Thoughts

This draft is already very strong. With a few small tweaks to deepen character, heighten the absurdity, and sharpen the satire, it will be a standout piece of short-form absurdist fiction. The “empty chair agency” is not only plausible within the story’s logic, but it also serves as a perfect vehicle for your political and bureaucratic critique. Well done!

Link to story on "Empty Chair Town Hall Meetings" (Guardian, April 29, 2025)

More on circumstances of Amalek poll (Morris/Finkelstein debate et al.)

 

Benny Morris vs Norman Finkelstein begins

13:25

now by two people with very different views about the war professor norman finkelstein and benny morris israeli

13:31

historian well welcome to both of you um benny morris my main question right now

13:37

for benjamin netanyahu i put it to him on x directly and i said "if you're

13:43

doing everything by the book and everything is justified and everything is legal and you're not committing any

13:49

war crimes or any of these things i simply asked him one simple question if you're doing nothing wrong let

13:55

international journalists go in and see for themselves." and i think it is

14:00

completely shameful that the israeli government continues to stop international journalists from doing

14:06

their job and it's down to the individual risk assessment will be by the journalists and their companies it

14:11

was put to me uh on two three days ago by uh an idf member that somehow has

14:18

been done for the safety of the journalists it's not it's complete nonsense and that's not down to israeli government anyway to make that call i

14:24

mean do do you at least accept that it is wrong that journalists are not allowed in there

14:30

i completely agree with you pierce the government has made a terrible mistake

14:36

in not allowing journalists in and whoever dies there dies but they should have allowed them in but i would like to

14:43

comment some make a comment about what your previous guest was saying um he

14:49

said he he spoke about objectivity or something the man is a total kamas

14:55

propagandist half the things he said were outright lies lots of doctors have been abducted and have disappeared is

15:02

total nonsense i know of one or two cases of doctor doctors who were taken to an israeli detention center what

15:09

happened to them afterwards i don't know i don't think they've been killed i think they're under arrest for whatever reason but they could have been many

15:15

doctors have been many basically agreeing with him aren't you no i'm not

15:21

i'm saying that he talked about you know of some doctors who've been who were detained you have no idea what happened

15:26

one or two i know i know of one or two you're confirming his story

15:32

no i'm not i'm confirming a small part of what is true the rest is a lie as is

15:37

a large part of what he's saying had israel wanted to kill all the palestinians that's what genocide

15:44

actually means there would have been many many many more deaths in gaza each

15:49

time israel launches an air raid we hear of the palestinians saying 24 people

15:55

have died 30 people have died and i'm sure many of them are civilians but i'm also sure that the air force going in

16:02

against these targets is attacking kamasnik we never hear from the kamas how many of their people are being

16:08

killed in these strikes all we hear about and all we see on television is dead babies and dead women they never

16:14

show grown male army-aged males being taken out of these ruins and the kamas

16:21

uses these things systematically there the schools the hospitals various um

16:27

so-called safe compounds to hide in okay but out of interest but out of interest

16:32

all right but but benny morris when you hear someone like smodrich last week talking about the campaign to just clear

16:39

everybody out he's disgusting you don't you don't have to you don't have to convince me he's disgusting right so so my question for you but my question for

16:45

you though is is this all right he's disgusting what he said was disgusting but what he said was also genocidal so

16:53

so where whereas you do not believe is genocide that's going on he clearly is

16:58

talking in a way which made me believe that actually maybe the intention is

17:03

genocide it may not be the death of absolutely everybody but it means killing a lot of palestinians and

17:10

kicking the rest out of the area and that is a genocide no no a a genocide is something which is

17:17

top-down government policy and carried out systematically that's not what is happening he is definitely some of his

17:24

speeches are genocidal i don't know what he means exactly and there are other min and there are other ministers who speak

17:30

like him and they shouldn't be doing that and they may even have a genocidal mentality but they do not control

17:37

government policy and they do not control what the army is doing that's done by the generals and unfortunately

17:43

in my mind by a man called netanyao who's totally a corrupt and incompetent

17:49

yeah and okay we bring in norman it's got nothing to do with but it's got it's got nothing to do with genocide well i

17:55

think you're getting perilously close to agreeing with me norma finkelstein i mean the bottom line is if it if it

18:02

sounds from the rhetoric like a genocide if the actions on the ground are becoming increasingly genocidal if

18:09

there's no other plan being put out there for what happens to palestinian people other than many more will die and

18:15

the rest will be thrown out of the of gaza i don't know what else you end up calling this um and you know i i i

18:23

listened to that doctor i didn't hear somebody that i felt was a a hamas sympathizer or propagandist he went out

18:30

of his way to say he was he's a liar he's a liar well he's a liar who's lost 78 members of his family so i mean true

18:38

and i i and and i agree and i i feel sorry for him but they're caught up in their own in a bad situation where kamas

18:45

controls where kamas controls the population and is willing to sacrifice as many civilians as they can to wind

18:52

world win world support well which is exactly what israel's also seems like they're prepared to sacrifice normastein

19:01

well thank you for having me on the program and i hope that you'll hear me out is it a genocide well as you know

19:09

pierce from the first time i appeared on your program many months ago i said it

19:14

was a genocide i said it was perfectly obvious when october 9th the then

19:21

defense minister galone said "we're not going to allow in any food fuel water or

19:27

electricity." well for a hermetically sealed population that's a genocide when the

19:34

head of state mr netanyahu compared the current situation

19:40

with amc and invoked the biblical reference it was clear as the israeli

19:45

human rights organization betum put it that he was talking about genocide

19:52

now in the 19 months that have elapsed there have been adjustments in israeli

19:58

policy due to external pressure that's called politics so when the external

20:04

pressures escalated they had to diminish the the

20:10

genocide and then beginning roughly when camela harris was nominated for

20:16

president in the united states and all the cameras switched to the american

20:22

election mr netanyahu who's very sensitive to and knowledgeable of the american media he

20:30

then escalated the genocidal assault on gaza again and then as you remember

20:36

because i did several programs with you at that p at that time as you'll

20:41

remember every day there was another massacre there were so many massacres it

20:47

was impossible to keep count and it was impossible to remember

20:52

now again there was some first massacre some lessening the first massacre was launched by hamas i i've not forgotten

20:59

it denny benny but you have denny you have to remember manners i'll remember the massacres and

21:06

you remember manners i'm speaking now so the there were times when israel

21:14

as i said escalated the genocide and then diminished the genocide now let's

21:21

talk about the responsibility and the mindset you've mentioned mr

21:26

smoldrich i mentioned mr netanyahu there was also several others

21:32

whose names have constantly come up obviously defense minister galant who was indicted along with prime minister

21:40

netanyahu by the international criminal court but it's not just the leadership

21:46

it's not just the leadership the most recent poll showed that fully one half

21:52

of israeli jews we're talking now about the population fully one half of israeli

21:59

jews believe that israel should conduct a genocide in gaza that's what the poll

22:05

result showed 82% that's a lie that is a lie 80 i know benny benny everybody's

22:13

lying never been a fool about supporting genocide mr mr

22:19

danny for vain lies okay okay danny what is that norman what

22:25

is that what is that poll what is that poll norman it seems a very important poll that is poll you're referring to

22:31

the it was a university if our memory is correct it was a university of

22:36

pennsylvania poll it was reported everywhere benny marvis knows about the

22:43

poll he's fully informed of the poll but he's doing his job as an official

22:49

israeli propaganda i don't like his i don't like his government i'm not their spokesman

22:55

you've reduced yourself you've reduced mr benny benny you've reduced yourself

23:01

to the level of a holocaust denier it's a real shame that you have sunk so low

23:07

but allow me to continue the poll showed that 82% of israeli jews

23:15

82% support a forced expulsion from gaza that's not the same

23:21

as genocide that may be true that may be true but that's not genocide

23:27

and that's not what you said before about genocide is total nonsense total nonsense pierce

23:34

you're going to have to ask benny morris to please allow me to speak well benny i

23:41

will let you respond though yeah norman you must you must

23:47

okay i i will finish i will i will finish then one of the leaders of the

23:54

opposition in israel described israeli soldiers as killing children as a hobby

24:02

in gaza now yes he took it back he took it back after he came under ferocious

24:11

attack but he himself acknowledged when i debated mr morris about a year ago and

24:19

i said that israel targets children he laughed he thought it was such a funny

24:25

remark by me absolutely i'm wondering i'm wondering i'm i'm wondering i'm

24:31

wondering after the foreign doctors in gaza after

24:37

after the foreign doctors in gaza attested that the children were

24:43

being shot in the head and the chest and when one of the leaders of the

24:49

opposition in israel said that the israeli soldiers killed children i must

24:55

let benny respond no i must let benny respond benny

25:01

there has never been a poll asking israelis whether they support genocide this is a total lie and the 50% figure

25:09

is also something completely out of norman finkelstein's imagination his twisted mind actually um there is no

25:16

targeting of children deliberately and what this um politician said and he's

25:22

actually a very clever politician and usually tells things straight and the truth was a slip of the tongue and he

25:27

said "i made a mistake i said the wrong thing and i shouldn't have used that phrase." stupid phrase israeli soldiers

25:34

do not target as a rule children there may be and i'm sure there are and have

25:40

been war crimes committed by israeli soldiers and pilots perhaps in this war

25:45

in the course of 19 months but i don't think we should forget that hamas is a

25:51

homicidal a homophobic misogynist totalitarian organization which tried to

25:58

kill as many israelis as they could most of them civilians on the 7th of august and what befell gaza as a result is

26:05

revenge for that attack by the attack by the kamas and the kamas said they would do the same thing again if they are

26:12

revived and resuscitated as a leading organization in the gaza strip and i

26:17

think that's the objective of the israeli army to end kamas rule and to end the kamas as an organization in the

26:24

gaza strip anybody normal who doesn't support islamists doesn't support

26:30

anti-semitism doesn't support misogyny doesn't support homophobia should be

26:35

against hamas which norman finglestein apparently isn't yeah but i don't isn't

26:40

i don't hear people supporting hamas uh in certainly a mainstream media or

26:45

anywhere else everyone's of a unanimity that what they did was unconscionable and they should be held to account the

26:51

problem is that the strategy that the isra want to do the qu the yes i heard i

26:57

still want to do and benny i don't benny let's just assume because they said it themselves in fact the spokesman said it

27:04

after october the 7th that they if they can do it again and again they will so they want to get rid of all the jews in

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israel okay that is hamas and of the state of israel and and of the state of

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israel but the problem is as i've always said from the start of this what is a proportional response resp to what

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happened and what is the endg game what does israel actually want at the end of