Wednesday, May 28, 2025

More on circumstances of Amalek poll (Morris/Finkelstein debate et al.)

 

Benny Morris vs Norman Finkelstein begins

13:25
now by two people with very different views about the war professor norman finkelstein and benny morris israeli
13:31
historian well welcome to both of you um benny morris my main question right now
13:37
for benjamin netanyahu i put it to him on x directly and i said "if you're
13:43
doing everything by the book and everything is justified and everything is legal and you're not committing any
13:49
war crimes or any of these things i simply asked him one simple question if you're doing nothing wrong let
13:55
international journalists go in and see for themselves." and i think it is
14:00
completely shameful that the israeli government continues to stop international journalists from doing
14:06
their job and it's down to the individual risk assessment will be by the journalists and their companies it
14:11
was put to me uh on two three days ago by uh an idf member that somehow has
14:18
been done for the safety of the journalists it's not it's complete nonsense and that's not down to israeli government anyway to make that call i
14:24
mean do do you at least accept that it is wrong that journalists are not allowed in there
14:30
i completely agree with you pierce the government has made a terrible mistake
14:36
in not allowing journalists in and whoever dies there dies but they should have allowed them in but i would like to
14:43
comment some make a comment about what your previous guest was saying um he
14:49
said he he spoke about objectivity or something the man is a total kamas
14:55
propagandist half the things he said were outright lies lots of doctors have been abducted and have disappeared is
15:02
total nonsense i know of one or two cases of doctor doctors who were taken to an israeli detention center what
15:09
happened to them afterwards i don't know i don't think they've been killed i think they're under arrest for whatever reason but they could have been many
15:15
doctors have been many basically agreeing with him aren't you no i'm not
15:21
i'm saying that he talked about you know of some doctors who've been who were detained you have no idea what happened
15:26
one or two i know i know of one or two you're confirming his story
15:32
no i'm not i'm confirming a small part of what is true the rest is a lie as is
15:37
a large part of what he's saying had israel wanted to kill all the palestinians that's what genocide
15:44
actually means there would have been many many many more deaths in gaza each
15:49
time israel launches an air raid we hear of the palestinians saying 24 people
15:55
have died 30 people have died and i'm sure many of them are civilians but i'm also sure that the air force going in
16:02
against these targets is attacking kamasnik we never hear from the kamas how many of their people are being
16:08
killed in these strikes all we hear about and all we see on television is dead babies and dead women they never
16:14
show grown male army-aged males being taken out of these ruins and the kamas
16:21
uses these things systematically there the schools the hospitals various um
16:27
so-called safe compounds to hide in okay but out of interest but out of interest
16:32
all right but but benny morris when you hear someone like smodrich last week talking about the campaign to just clear
16:39
everybody out he's disgusting you don't you don't have to you don't have to convince me he's disgusting right so so my question for you but my question for
16:45
you though is is this all right he's disgusting what he said was disgusting but what he said was also genocidal so
16:53
so where whereas you do not believe is genocide that's going on he clearly is
16:58
talking in a way which made me believe that actually maybe the intention is
17:03
genocide it may not be the death of absolutely everybody but it means killing a lot of palestinians and
17:10
kicking the rest out of the area and that is a genocide no no a a genocide is something which is
17:17
top-down government policy and carried out systematically that's not what is happening he is definitely some of his
17:24
speeches are genocidal i don't know what he means exactly and there are other min and there are other ministers who speak
17:30
like him and they shouldn't be doing that and they may even have a genocidal mentality but they do not control
17:37
government policy and they do not control what the army is doing that's done by the generals and unfortunately
17:43
in my mind by a man called netanyao who's totally a corrupt and incompetent
17:49
yeah and okay we bring in norman it's got nothing to do with but it's got it's got nothing to do with genocide well i
17:55
think you're getting perilously close to agreeing with me norma finkelstein i mean the bottom line is if it if it
18:02
sounds from the rhetoric like a genocide if the actions on the ground are becoming increasingly genocidal if
18:09
there's no other plan being put out there for what happens to palestinian people other than many more will die and
18:15
the rest will be thrown out of the of gaza i don't know what else you end up calling this um and you know i i i
18:23
listened to that doctor i didn't hear somebody that i felt was a a hamas sympathizer or propagandist he went out
18:30
of his way to say he was he's a liar he's a liar well he's a liar who's lost 78 members of his family so i mean true
18:38
and i i and and i agree and i i feel sorry for him but they're caught up in their own in a bad situation where kamas
18:45
controls where kamas controls the population and is willing to sacrifice as many civilians as they can to wind
18:52
world win world support well which is exactly what israel's also seems like they're prepared to sacrifice normastein
19:01
well thank you for having me on the program and i hope that you'll hear me out is it a genocide well as you know
19:09
pierce from the first time i appeared on your program many months ago i said it
19:14
was a genocide i said it was perfectly obvious when october 9th the then
19:21
defense minister galone said "we're not going to allow in any food fuel water or
19:27
electricity." well for a hermetically sealed population that's a genocide when the
19:34
head of state mr netanyahu compared the current situation
19:40
with amc and invoked the biblical reference it was clear as the israeli
19:45
human rights organization betum put it that he was talking about genocide
19:52
now in the 19 months that have elapsed there have been adjustments in israeli
19:58
policy due to external pressure that's called politics so when the external
20:04
pressures escalated they had to diminish the the
20:10
genocide and then beginning roughly when camela harris was nominated for
20:16
president in the united states and all the cameras switched to the american
20:22
election mr netanyahu who's very sensitive to and knowledgeable of the american media he
20:30
then escalated the genocidal assault on gaza again and then as you remember
20:36
because i did several programs with you at that p at that time as you'll
20:41
remember every day there was another massacre there were so many massacres it
20:47
was impossible to keep count and it was impossible to remember
20:52
now again there was some first massacre some lessening the first massacre was launched by hamas i i've not forgotten
20:59
it denny benny but you have denny you have to remember manners i'll remember the massacres and
21:06
you remember manners i'm speaking now so the there were times when israel
21:14
as i said escalated the genocide and then diminished the genocide now let's
21:21
talk about the responsibility and the mindset you've mentioned mr
21:26
smoldrich i mentioned mr netanyahu there was also several others
21:32
whose names have constantly come up obviously defense minister galant who was indicted along with prime minister
21:40
netanyahu by the international criminal court but it's not just the leadership
21:46
it's not just the leadership the most recent poll showed that fully one half
21:52
of israeli jews we're talking now about the population fully one half of israeli
21:59
jews believe that israel should conduct a genocide in gaza that's what the poll
22:05
result showed 82% that's a lie that is a lie 80 i know benny benny everybody's
22:13
lying never been a fool about supporting genocide mr mr
22:19
danny for vain lies okay okay danny what is that norman what
22:25
is that what is that poll what is that poll norman it seems a very important poll that is poll you're referring to
22:31
the it was a university if our memory is correct it was a university of
22:36
pennsylvania poll it was reported everywhere benny marvis knows about the
22:43
poll he's fully informed of the poll but he's doing his job as an official
22:49
israeli propaganda i don't like his i don't like his government i'm not their spokesman
22:55
you've reduced yourself you've reduced mr benny benny you've reduced yourself
23:01
to the level of a holocaust denier it's a real shame that you have sunk so low
23:07
but allow me to continue the poll showed that 82% of israeli jews
23:15
82% support a forced expulsion from gaza that's not the same
23:21
as genocide that may be true that may be true but that's not genocide
23:27
and that's not what you said before about genocide is total nonsense total nonsense pierce
23:34
you're going to have to ask benny morris to please allow me to speak well benny i
23:41
will let you respond though yeah norman you must you must
23:47
okay i i will finish i will i will finish then one of the leaders of the
23:54
opposition in israel described israeli soldiers as killing children as a hobby
24:02
in gaza now yes he took it back he took it back after he came under ferocious
24:11
attack but he himself acknowledged when i debated mr morris about a year ago and
24:19
i said that israel targets children he laughed he thought it was such a funny
24:25
remark by me absolutely i'm wondering i'm wondering i'm i'm wondering i'm
24:31
wondering after the foreign doctors in gaza after
24:37
after the foreign doctors in gaza attested that the children were
24:43
being shot in the head and the chest and when one of the leaders of the
24:49
opposition in israel said that the israeli soldiers killed children i must
24:55
let benny respond no i must let benny respond benny
25:01
there has never been a poll asking israelis whether they support genocide this is a total lie and the 50% figure
25:09
is also something completely out of norman finkelstein's imagination his twisted mind actually um there is no
25:16
targeting of children deliberately and what this um politician said and he's
25:22
actually a very clever politician and usually tells things straight and the truth was a slip of the tongue and he
25:27
said "i made a mistake i said the wrong thing and i shouldn't have used that phrase." stupid phrase israeli soldiers
25:34
do not target as a rule children there may be and i'm sure there are and have
25:40
been war crimes committed by israeli soldiers and pilots perhaps in this war
25:45
in the course of 19 months but i don't think we should forget that hamas is a
25:51
homicidal a homophobic misogynist totalitarian organization which tried to
25:58
kill as many israelis as they could most of them civilians on the 7th of august and what befell gaza as a result is
26:05
revenge for that attack by the attack by the kamas and the kamas said they would do the same thing again if they are
26:12
revived and resuscitated as a leading organization in the gaza strip and i
26:17
think that's the objective of the israeli army to end kamas rule and to end the kamas as an organization in the
26:24
gaza strip anybody normal who doesn't support islamists doesn't support
26:30
anti-semitism doesn't support misogyny doesn't support homophobia should be
26:35
against hamas which norman finglestein apparently isn't yeah but i don't isn't
26:40
i don't hear people supporting hamas uh in certainly a mainstream media or
26:45
anywhere else everyone's of a unanimity that what they did was unconscionable and they should be held to account the
26:51
problem is that the strategy that the isra want to do the qu the yes i heard i
26:57
still want to do and benny i don't benny let's just assume because they said it themselves in fact the spokesman said it
27:04
after october the 7th that they if they can do it again and again they will so they want to get rid of all the jews in
27:10
israel okay that is hamas and of the state of israel and and of the state of
27:15
israel but the problem is as i've always said from the start of this what is a proportional response resp to what
27:21
happened and what is the endg game what does israel actually want at the end of

No comments:

Post a Comment